# Scope, dates & game versions
This page covers only what named players wrote about choosing a doctrine for the Balrog in Guild Master - Idle Dungeons (community name: Idle Guild Master). It uses a topic-selected re-collection of r/IdleGuildMaster (3908 threads: 3901 from r/IdleGuildMaster and 7 from r/incremental_games; 25233 comments), collected via the Arctic Shift archive on 2026-10-04. The selection rule and provenance are in research/pipeline/jobs/idle-guild-master/corpus/; threads without the selection keywords may be missing. Every quote is matched against that collection by an automated test, line breaks included; author, date and score come from the collection. Nothing here was checked in the game.
Doctrines are version-sensitive. The first version note in the collection that mentions a Doctrine ability is version 2.96 (2025-05-16): u/Paranoid-Squirrels (2025-05-16, older, post 1knxic8) wrote: The Serpent Lunge rework is there because, due to an interaction with a new Doctrine ability, it could be used to make a tank basically immortal.
[3] The collection holds no comment dated before 2025-05-16 that contains a doctrine word (doctrin-, доктрин- or doutrin-; checked by the page test), so nothing earlier can be quoted. Two periods are used below and every date carries its label:
- Older posts: 2025-05-16 to 2025-09-25. Version notes exist in the collection for this period (see Version notes).
- Newer posts: from 2025-09-26. The newest version note in the collection is version 2.134 (2025-09-25). u/LanceAbbott (2025-12-08, newer, comment nsx3w82) writes:
game version didnt change for a while so there is nothing new to find
[4] The collection states no game version for newer comments, so their numbers cannot be matched to a patch.
Labels: Community Knowledge what a named player wrote; Version-sensitive version-note lines tied to a date; Observed Game Fact is not used because nothing was checked in the game. Non-English quotes are given in the original with a literal English translation labelled “(translation by MiniMeta, not verified by the author)”. Where the collection has no statement, this page writes “limited sample”.
# Counts
Community Knowledge Script-computed mention counts. Scope: comments dated 2025-05-16 or later that name the Balrog (or a spelling variant) and a doctrine in the same comment, where the comment or its thread title contains “doctrin”: 77 comments. A doctrine is “mentioned” when its name appears in such a comment, including dismissive or negative mentions.
| Doctrine | Comments | Authors | Dated before 2026 | Dated 2026-01-01 or later |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Knowledge | 41 | 20 | 9 | 32 |
| Illusion | 32 | 19 | 11 | 21 |
| Control | 21 | 12 | 5 | 16 |
| Affliction | 18 | 11 | 11 | 7 |
| Ruin | 15 | 10 | 5 | 10 |
| War | 13 | 9 | 4 | 9 |
| Grace | 11 | 7 | 4 | 7 |
| Fortitude | 6 | 6 | 2 | 4 |
Reproduce with python3 research/pipeline/jobs/idle-guild-master/rebuild_plan/counts.py (from the repository root). The counts are neither exact nor a ceiling: ordinary words (knowledge, illusion, control, war, grace, ruin) can add matches, while comments that lack the word Balrog, or whose thread title spells “doctrine” differently, are not counted, so some comments quoted on this page are outside the count. The table splits at 2026-01-01, not at the older/newer boundary used elsewhere on this page. These counts are the only “how many” statement here; they say how often a name was mentioned, not which doctrine is better.
# Where players disagree
Each table puts comments side by side with author, date and comment link (the link goes to the permalink table under Sources).
Knowledge or Illusion? Older posts (2025-07-26, one thread)
| Knowledge | Illusion |
|---|---|
u/AshtonShiken, 2025-07-26, older, comment n5719p8: | u/benk1102, 2025-07-26, older, comment n58gpb2: u/Zestyclose_Ask8837, 2025-07-26, older, comment n59utug: |
Community Knowledge In the same thread, a question and its answer about D11 (the question is a reply to a different comment, not shown here): u/sztrzask (2025-07-26, older, comment n5c5et7) asked: Why in D11 more int = bad farm?
[1] u/Zestyclose_Ask8837 (2025-07-26, older, comment n5cfqrr) answered: Because u'll kill the shaman too fast, and he will not be able to summon the boss.
[1]
A reply pair in one thread (newer, 2026-08-04)
| Comment | Direct reply, same thread |
|---|---|
u/Fomor666, 2026-08-04, newer, comment p1kklgu: | u/Educational-Fun3513, 2026-08-04, newer, comment p1l3ta4: |
Community Knowledge The two comments describe Illusion differently: u/Fomor666 (2026-08-04, newer, comment p1kklgu) writes: the Illusion Doctrine is better (the mobs are weak, so the damage increase is more beneficial)
[2] u/Om4eWaMou (2026-04-19, newer, comment oh5jw3e) writes: Illusion is better for survival
[5]
Knowledge, Illusion or “it depends”? Other newer threads (2026-03 to 2026-09)
| Names Knowledge | Names Illusion | Depends on the dungeon / names several |
|---|---|---|
u/Fomor666, 2026-09-14, newer, comment p9os4un: | u/Om4eWaMou, 2026-04-19, newer, comment oh5jw3e: u/Om4eWaMou, 2026-04-21, newer, comment ohgf71r: | u/nevercontribute1, 2026-03-14, newer, comment oadsrid: u/Fomor666, 2026-06-25, newer, comment otpv68j: |
One commenter changes his answer (Affliction, then Knowledge)
| First comment (2025-06-06, 21:54 UTC) | Next comments, same thread, same author (2025-06-07, 00:13 and 00:42 UTC) |
|---|---|
u/jrohrer13, 2025-06-06, older, comment mwe3yhl: | u/jrohrer13, 2025-06-07, older, comment mwermy6: u/jrohrer13, 2025-06-07, older, comment mwermy6: u/jrohrer13, 2025-06-07, older, comment mwewc5e: |
Control for the Balrog (2026-09)
| Names Control | Hedges on ranking doctrines | Calls Control mediocre (direct reply to the Spanish comment) |
|---|---|---|
u/AkihoshiSenpai, 2026-09-14, newer, comment p9qwpvq: u/Randonaut3, 2026-09-27, newer, comment pccwxp3: | u/AkihoshiSenpai, 2026-09-14, newer, comment p9qy5he: | u/Fomor666, 2026-09-27, newer, comment pccyjx3: |
The Balrog when farming Infernite
| Illusion | Knowledge |
|---|---|
u/Disastrous-Canary378, 2026-04-28, newer, comment oitzmkp: | u/rlaughne, 2026-04-29, newer, comment oiycxnb: u/rlaughne, 2026-04-29, newer, comment oiycxnb: |
Is Knowledge needed for 34 mana?
| Knowledge credited | Illusion credited | Reached without Knowledge |
|---|---|---|
u/Key-Speed-2688, 2025-05-16, older, comment msm31tp: | u/Om4eWaMou, 2026-04-19, newer, comment oh5jw3e: | u/benk1102, 2025-07-26, older, comment n58gpb2: u/Fomor666, 2026-04-19, newer, comment oh5pgzh: |
Second trait for the Balrog
| Bookworm is the only requirement | Bookworm plus Nimble |
|---|---|
u/Key-Speed-2688, 2025-11-29, newer, comment nre04hj: | u/Rcoy1000, 2026-04-20, newer, comment oh6y5t7: |
# Doctrine mechanics as players state them
- Community Knowledge Unlock: u/Slaugval (2026-01-18, newer, comment o0a8zo4) asked:
will it unlock doctrine for it and others that haven't reached the maximum level?
[14] u/Training-Neat-2561 (2026-01-18, newer, comment o0amc5k) answered:Just the balrog, each unit needs to hit 45/45 and reset back to their basic class, footman, apprentice ect, to get access to doctrines.
[14] - Community Knowledge Points: u/Fomor666 (2026-06-25, newer, comment otq2490) writes:
every 15 levels (18 in total)
[9] Another commenter: u/jardfred (2026-04-03, newer, comment oe1y4g1) writes:You have 18 points after fully leveling an adventure.
[15] Other point sources are not covered here: limited sample. - Community Knowledge Changing points: u/Educational-Fun3513 (2026-04-20, newer, comment oh7j4gk) writes:
You can upgrade whatever you want and also change the points whenever you want.
[5] - Community Knowledge Cost of switching, three different figures: u/Key-Speed-2688 (2025-05-16, older, comment msm31tp) writes:
takes 50 gems
[3] u/Alauzhen (2025-12-09, newer, comment nt1akji) writes:You can switch doctrines for 50 diamonds
[4] u/Traditional_Tour_441 (2026-04-03, newer, post 1sb0063) writes:it seems you can repick the doctrine with 30 diamonds each time
[15] The 30 diamonds line is from a question post.
# Version notes that touch the Balrog
These lines are copied from version-note posts by u/Paranoid-Squirrels. Comments dated before these notes were written before the change.
- Version-sensitive u/Paranoid-Squirrels (2025-08-10, older, post 1mmqbbt) writes:
False life (Illusion): 3% -> 4% per level
[16] u/Paranoid-Squirrels (2025-08-10, older, post 1mmqbbt) also writes:True Agony (Illusion): 1000 damage -> 1500 damage
[16] u/Paranoid-Squirrels (2025-08-10, older, post 1mmqbbt) also writes:Mind Bender (Control): 10% -> 5%
[16] - Version-sensitive u/Paranoid-Squirrels (2025-08-13, older, post 1mpayq2) writes:
Doctrine of Control's Impenetrable Willpower: 15 status immunity per level -> 20
[17] u/Paranoid-Squirrels (2025-08-13, older, post 1mpayq2) also writes:Doctrine of Control's Arcane Suppression: 100 damage -> 150
[17] - Version-sensitive u/Paranoid-Squirrels (2025-09-21, older, post 1nmymk3) writes:
BUG MITIGATION (see notes)
[18] The next version’s note: u/Paranoid-Squirrels (2025-09-25, older, post 1nqdahn) wrote:
- Rarely, for reasons yet unknown, the Balrog attacks himself.so i expect the Balrog bug to still be present (even if mitigated, because since last update its damage was set to 1 in this instance)
[19]
# What this page cannot tell you
- No collected comment states a tested, repeatable comparison of the doctrines; the figures above are what the named players wrote.
- Ruin, War, Grace and Fortitude are named in Balrog comments (see Counts), but this page quotes no statement that picks them for the Balrog and does not assess them: limited sample.
- The 23 quoted newer comments come from 15 authors; u/Fomor666 wrote 6 of them. They are not independent votes.
- Newer posts carry no game version; if the game changed after 2025-09-25, some newer figures may no longer apply.
- This page has no recommendation of its own. It lists who said what and when.